Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers I'll test it very cautiously. Bayet Frres Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. OldGuns Newsletter . Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Designates rifled barrel. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Your help is appreciated. Proof and Armorers' Marks - The Book of the Pistol Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. These Comblain - Dorther Hubert Berleur Guillaume The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Miscellaneous rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. to share our findings by this means of communication. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Braekers Charles & Cie The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Thank you Jerry. Bonzon & Arents & Cie Serial Numbers. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Very helpfull once again. Members . Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. I recently decided to clean it up. Charlier Ch. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? Bertrand Antoine Bernard Victor & Cie There's no indication of gauge. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? IMPORTANT NOTE! http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. (copy right L.R. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital Order this book online and pay it through The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Berleur Michel Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. firearms books bibliary. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Tel: 01707 709372; Sorry! Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum Marlin-Savage-Winchester Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Cachoir Bernard Emile & Cie Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. 1860-1870. Brancquaert Louis I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. Ancion Marx Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". In addition to Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons Chaumont M.J. Bettonville - Fontaine In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Counet Philippe I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Any info will help. Bernard Ernest A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Double Take: Gorgeous Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns - Field & Stream 4 0 obj There are a number of He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. It is located just above the circle with ELG. carefully bound by threads. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. Belgium - Shotguns Comblain H. J. Collings Hadelin JavaScript is disabled. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. I have pictures If you need them. Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Gun Markings - OldGuns.net Shotgun Manufacturers - Types of Shotguns for Auction at GunBroker.com So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Bernard Henri Eugne Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Warnant Top Break Double Action Revolver - Revivaler We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Closset Louis 1840-1860. Comblain Hubert Joseph Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques Many thanxPS:. Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks The Baby Browning: A .25 ACP Pocket Pistol For Personal Protection Comblain To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Antique Shotguns - Percussion for sale - Guns International the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military production. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. No maker's name anywhere? B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. A "Greener" double? When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. Bernard Alphonse HI, John. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". A Beginner's Guide to Collecting Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Collette Lopold Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. Bastin Frres since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof Vintage Belgium double barrel identification | The Firearms Forum It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. My uncle has this neat old revolver that he doesn't know much about The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Burlet After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. Bauduin Charles It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. Arnold Mathias Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Can you add any details? Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. Colette Victor Wish I could be more helpful! Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and stream This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. After years of looking at and trying It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. Can be without star and ring. that we have found on this subject. These might cursive as well. Coleye M. N. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? These firearms St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. The blue is rough but the action works. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. Quick Facts Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Andr M.J. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Behr Jean jacques in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Identification on a Belgian Liege musket, real or repro? http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. Belgian Liege gunmakers (G to K) - Volume 3 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from Please note! Thanks. Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. Bookmark On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking.



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