If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. The knives are ideal for both indoor and outdoor use. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. As such, the performance of the steel is entirely dependent upon the steels being utilized. and our This is the steel used in Swiss Army knives and is excellent for beginner sharpeners. Give it a couple of weeks, and feedback will start pouring in. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. The stainless steel rating. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. Compared to the AUS10A, the D2 has a longer legacy since it's been around since 1918. Your email address will not be published. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. In real life, would you expect any presumed increase in deviation from the specified formula, as well as the effects of said deviation, to negatively impact the performance of 8Cr13MoV to any truly noticeable degree? Larrin, thank you for this. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). High alloy tool steels are designed to be air hardening, so they can be cooled even slower than the oil hardening steels found above. 12C27 Which knife for best? Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. Steels with only vanadium carbides have the best balance of properties because the hardness of carbide matters for edge retention but doesnt for toughness. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. I wont go into detail about those here. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ For decades, different steels have been made to fit this category. I can also say from personal experience that marine grade plywood will chaw up your saw blade and battery a lot quicker than standard plywood, but that probably says more about the glue that was used than the wood. Hi Jimmie, thanks for your comments. Its high hardness and relatively high toughness also make it an excellent choice in cutlery. Hi there, If thats true why do you include it in the stainless steel category? This is good for ease in heat treating in large batches and for even cooling that greatly reduces warping and size changes. High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. Everything you need to know to buy the right knife for the job. Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. They made planer blades out D2 for its edge retention. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. The studies confirmed that the primary controlling factors are hardness of the steel, volume of carbides, and hardness of the carbides. The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. And Mn and Si isnt shown at all for the high alloy steels, even though those elements are added to all of them. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. The 10V specimens tempered at 1000F were 4-5 ft-lbs while the specimens tempered at 4-500F were 7-8 ft-lbs. We can predict edge retention of a steel within a relatively narrow band based on hardness and carbide volume. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. 14C28N Vs D2 . But if when youre searching for tough steel for your outdoor experience camping, or hunting, it would be perfect steel but not the best choice therere other steels with better than toughness that would suit your usage. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. Ease of sharpening refers to how difficult it is to remove material with a sharpening stone. Its a costly and challenging process, but it makes extremely fine-grained steels, some of the best for knives, and makes some processes that were previously impossible a reality. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. In general, higher carbon and higher vanadium steels have higher wear resistance and edge retention but lower toughness. Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. Marco, BSc Chem. 14c28n has less carbon and chromium as compared to 9Cr steel. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, read an article I wrote on budget steels here, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/, https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/, The Pros And Cons Of Stainless Steel Copper And Aluminum Brewing Equipment SanctuaryBrewCo, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. It is certainly possible for a knifemaker or heat treating company to do a heat treatment that will have suboptimal properties. And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. thanks thats interesting. in relation to hardness). You can read more about these factors in my book Knife Engineering. S90V Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. . Alloying elements are an important ingredient vital in getting the best steel for the job. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. Corrosion is not only cosmetic. A more obtuse edge angle is much more resistant to chipping than an acute edge. This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. great work, larrin. All three of these steels havechromium, molybdenum, vanadium, and tungsten components and will perform well in myriad tasks. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? Without any confusion, you can purchase this set that has a slim, versatile, modified drip-point blade with good slicing capabilities. Top quality steel yields perfect toughness, edge retention, wear and corrosion resistance, an easy to sharpen, long lasting and durable everyday carry that will fast become a user favorite. 1.4116 got a 2.5 for toughness and edge retention where as 420HC got a 9 for toughness and a 2.5 for edge retention. While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. . Below shows approximate maximum hardness vs stainless rating for several stainless knife steels. It is an upgrade of 12C27, and 13C26 steel initially used to make blades for shaving razors. I would love to see a Tungsten-Carbide blade (like Sandrin is using) and how it compares for Edge Retention, Toughness and Corrosion Resistance especially how it compares to s90v. D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. [Steel Knife Review], What is 14c28n steel? nevertheles its importand to keep in mind what exactly is going on there (abrasive plastic media, loss of most of cutting ability during the first few strokes etc.). The ESEE had significant edge damage while the MagnaCut knife did not. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. This is a major tradeoff between improved cutting ability and edge retention with an acute angle vs a strong and chip resistant edge with an obtuse angle. I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. This is an American-made powder steel produced by Crucible and developed specifically for knives with the aid of the knife guru Chris Reeve (maker of the vaunted Sebenza, among other gems). Then we could say, e.g. I was struggling to simplify all the Rockwell/Youngs Modulus stuff for readers when I came across your site. Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. So hard vanadium carbides means you get more edge retention for a given amount of carbide. I have a question about the chart Often used for combat knives. It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. This means consumers should be able to maintain these quality knives at home. Start comparing steels. I like it. However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! the more complex fracture toughness at least lets you make some estimates in this sence. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. That old pine in particular is some crazy hard stuff. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. Thanks to Bill Smutz, Alex Topfer, Florian Bachler, Brunhard, Art, Rod H, Sach, Jinny Koh, Jon Duda, Cory Henderson, and UPKnife for becoming Knife Steeel Nerds Patreon supporters! Note:Dont bother with anything less than 8Cr in this series. The best scenario is when the steel, heat treatment, and geometry are selected for the knife and the use. Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. This steel is quite corrosion resistant and sharpens easily. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. Cronidur 30 There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. It shows 3 stainless steels from 750-800tcc but the edge retention graph only has 1 SS in that range, S90v. The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. CROMOVA ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). drop point 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. CPM-REX 121 and Maxamet are both in this category. Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/, Unfortunately it all comes down to marketing on everybody involved: Industry, knifemakers, users. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. I will be focusing on CATRA edge retention which measures abrasive wear of knives. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. The difference in properties between 14C28N and D2 steel is very clear. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. Steels without these attributes are much less costly. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. Three main characteristics differentiate steels from one another: corrosion resistance, hardness, and toughness. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. Only a few years ago Elmax was pricey, but competition has driven it down to reasonable levels, making it a decent value. Steel high in carbides cant be stamped out; it must be cut by a waterjet or laser, which takes time and is more expensive. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. How long sharpen? I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. I see tables that compare Toughness,Edge Retention,Corrosion Resistance. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in metallurgy terms. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. Its hard to say. . I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. However, D2 steel has better edge retention, while 14C28N offers a better sharpening experience. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. Most of these steels are carbon steels, except for CPM MagnaCut (the fancy steel cooked up specifically for knives by Dr. Thomas), which has excellent corrosion resistance. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. Steels patina in the acid at varying rates which allows for one steel to etch darker than the other and show that famous patterned contrast. You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. I have the average composition of the steels rated above (plus some extras) so you can see what the different names refer to. also the angle is by far the most important factor in catra testing, so such results might be irrelevant. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. I have two quick questions, For more information, please see our The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). 20? 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. One important concept I want to hammer home is that there isnt one property that is most important. Everyone has their own opinion on what they deem the best folding EDC knife. Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. Its easy to sharpen. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. Anybody know how the Sandvik stacks up against all these other steels. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. I used to work for a company that did reclaimed old growth lumber (swamp cedar, old growth pine and oak beams, etc) and we went through planer blades twice as fast as the cabinetry shop next door (turns out the neighbors like it when you put all the loud businesses together and far away), which mostly cut fresh cherry, oak, maple, hickory etc. G10 The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. Since the heat treatment is done before you get your knife, and its impossible to tell how good the heat treatment is with your eye, you often must rely on the manufacturers reputation for a good heat treat.



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